Debate. Debate. Debate.

Thank you Eris.
And Ella, it may be messed up to you but it's not your choice and no one should be able to limit what a woman can do with her body.

Thank you Eris.
And Ella, it may be messed up to you but it's not your choice and no one should be able to limit what a woman can do with her body.

Agreed. Our country is about freedom, after all.

Except it’s not her body! That “clump of cells” is not just some hideous growth that you can dispose of if it inconveniences you, it’s a growing child with it’s own DNA, it’s own body, it’s own future, it’s own heartbeat… The list grows and grows. It is not the woman’s right to kill it off, it is not simply her choice.

At that point, in the beginning of the pregnancy, it's not a person with emotions that can feel pain. The key word is consciousness, and a fetus in the early stages is not conscious.

So you would force a woman to carry something within her body that she does not want?

Okay, I’m going to give my extremely blunt and biased opinion here:
I think it’s more humane to force someone through unwanted labor as a consequence of their actions than to brutally, painfully murder someone else who can’t speak for themselves because of a mistake their parents made. Sure, neither of them are fair or deserved, but the first one sounds a bit less… Insane. Just my opinion though.

Interesting to see that you would choose to take someone's right to their own body away. Sex is not a crime. It shouldn't be treated as such by saying that they should be held accountable for an accident. Labor is traumatizing most women suffer immensely afterward (Postpartum depression) and to add 'unwanted' on top of that is cruel. That's torture and unnecessary punishment. That is inhumane.
Imagine you got a splinter because you played in some old trees and your parent told you that you couldn't remove it because you need to suffer the consequences of what you did. Would that be fair? Would it be fair if it got infected and ruined your entire body and you suffered until it was flushed out of your body? Is that fair?

I feel extremely weird talking about this
I know, if the mother is considering an abortion, she probably didn’t intend to get pregnant in the first place. It was all an accident, and she shouldn’t be fully blamed. But there are so many ways to prevent this situation that don’t include killing the child, so who’s fault is it, the mother for not being cautious enough or the baby for existing?

It's not only a females fault. Sex is a two way street. It's no one's fault if it is an accident and it is a fully adult decision in which to take care of it. It's not the business of some politician in New York what a woman in southern California does with her body. She has a right to decide if she wants children now…or later.

Maybe the mother did try to prevent it and it didn’t work out for whatever reason. It still isn’t the baby’s fault, so why should they be killed for it? If you’re going to do the thing that’s known for creating babies, you have to accept the fact that there is, indeed, a chance you’ll end up with babies, so if you’re not ready for them, don’t risk it.

Good luck trying to tell humans to stop having sex just because there is a risk of babies.

Many people are informed of the dangers of pregnancy, but much fewer know about the dangers and risks of abortion.

There are risks to any procedure and the risks that come from pregnancy and birth far out weigh any of these dangers and risks. You have a higher chance of dying during complications of birth than any abortion.

How about in cases where the mother didn’t consent at all? It’s not her fault in the slightest, but it’s not the child’s either. So why should this baby have to receive the death penalty for something they didn’t cause?

Do you know the percentage of of abortions that are done without consent? It's ridiculously low within the united states. A woman must sign a plethora of consent forms before a doctor can even touch her.

(I had to type all this pretty fast due to my WiFi, I apologize for any spelling errors, logical issues, unfinished points, or broken links)

Women are not incubators.

Hold up, now I’m confused, aren’t incubators those things that protect unusually small or premature babies so they can continue to grow and regain health? And isn’t that kinda what the womb is built to do in the first place? …Making women, in a way, natural incubators but for their own children if they have any? I’m confuzzled, educate me. (Sorry If something’s offensively wrong here, I truly don’t mean to be sexist or anything along those lines, I’m just a bit ignorant and want to understand these things better. Tbh it’s kind of embarrassing that I’ve messed up so many times I have to include apologies when I argue or ask questions in debates

That's not only what an incubator is. I meant this as a comment about reducing a woman to nothing more than a broodmare or a breeder. No one should be told that they have no right over their body and have to carry something that they do not want. Women are not only gestational devices that a fetus and/or man can use for their gain. So yes in fact your comment was indeed sexist. (Not trying to be mean. just letting you know)

Except it’s not her body! That “clump of cells” is not just some hideous growth that you can dispose of if it inconveniences you, it’s a growing child with it’s own DNA, it’s own body, it’s own future, it’s own heartbeat… The list grows and grows. It is not the woman’s right to kill it off, it is not simply her choice.

It is her body Ella. That clump of cells she created. The woman can decide what she wants to do with it.
It's her body that the fetus is growing inside of, changing, stealing nutrients from. Technically, a fetus is a 'malignant' growth. (I mean this in the medical terminology way. Meaning- that the growth continues to grow and affect the nature of its host.)
The fetus doesnt have "it’s own DNA, it’s own body, it’s own future, it’s own heartbeat…" until much later on.

It is her choice. It's her body, her life, her well being that is getting affected first.

I’m going to attempt to keep my mouth shut for a moment because the more I think about it, the more horrified and angry I become, and when I start to get angry my ability to use logic flies out the window and I end up arguing using mumble jumbled memories and emotions instead of facts and evidence. So for the sake of being respectful, I’m going to disappear for a moment.
:)

I’ll be back with actual arguments once I take a break, breathe for a moment, and try ever so desperately not to scream.

Okay, go ahead. Sorry if this is getting too heated on my part.

……..okay.?

There are some subjects that easily tick me off even when the arguments given are calm and/or reasonable, and this just happens to be one of them. None of you did anything wrong, I’ll be cool in a minute, just taking a little precaution. Everything’s fine, we’re all good, go ahead and keep debating things, yeah.

In other words, ignore me

This is going to sound really rude, but NutElla, if you're going to leave the debate for a bit. You don't have to announce that you're pissed off. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't care.

Except it’s not her body!

It is. It always is. That woman has bodily autonomy. Everything that happens in her body is her choice .
Pregnancy is not fun. Your body changes so much in a few months, and there’s literally thousands of side effects. It’s not for everyone, and it’s a sacrifice only people who really want a baby should have to make. I don’t ever want to be pregnant, which is a choice I, and only I can make. That’s how it works. Your body, your rules.

(I wish there was a 'Like' button so I can aggressively like your comment moony. Well said.)

(Thank you!!! :))))))) :D)

Info peeps!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRDnVSMr5j0.

These videos are not 'info' Dom. These are wildly biased towards Pro Life meant to scare people, especially women. Where are the credentials for this man? Show true medical videos created by hospitals that are used to teach then I will accept this as evidence.

And the bit where the woman can SEE the fetus after expulsion is completely incorrect.

As I mentioned before, medication is taken to make sure that the fetus has 'died' before being aborted, no where does this "doctor" mention that, instead showing an animation that shows the fetus as still being viable. This is incorrect.

I also avoided going into super detail about what happens in the later abortions because it can be graphic. Too graphic for this kind of website and minors. I would prefer it if you took the videos down.

No worries! I just didnt want to trigger anyone. Just in case. :D

why do my fellow small government conservatives want government to be able to infringe on someone’s right to do what they want to do? Isn’t that antithetical to libertarian ideals? and I completely agree that abortion is wrong and should be confined to certain circumstances

Alright, so theoretically, the abortion is painless. And sometimes necessary, and we don't want to cause a woman pain she didn't ask for or want. But does that change that the little clump of cells, which maybe don't have DNA yet, will soon? That clump of cells has a life that no one should just be able to take away. It has a future where it can live an amazing life and do amazing things, no matter how inconvenient those nine months are. I am a girl, and I realize that if something like this would happen to me, those nine months would be awful. But sometimes you just have to deal with awful things. (Sorry this is fast I'm rushing)

I have a really really long thingy that I doubt I'll finish typing before my WiFi goes out, just announcing so no one thinks I'm dead or ignoring things.

The thing people seem all too happy to forget is that the woman has a life too. A life that could be put on hold, or even ruined by having a child. Having a child is hard. It takes commitment. It’s unfiar to both the woman and the child to force them into a life they don’t want, or can’t enjoy.

Well, things are going to be unfair no matter what, neither the woman or the child deserves punishment. But which punishment is worse, 9 months of slowly increasing but (usually) temporary pain or outright death?

Death. I would chose death, honestly.

it's not just nine months. and that pain isn't temporary. When your body changes that much you can;t ever get is just like it was before. Close, but not perfect. Your stomach will never quite be the same, or your back. And let's not forget that postpartum depression exists. Having a child isn't just carrying it for nine months- its paying hospital bills, feeding, providing shelter, caring for, and loving a small, utterly helpless human being. Its a big deal, and your life never goes back to the way it was before.
For some people, that could mean the end of their lives, their careers, their friendships, their habits. Having a child is a big-frickin-deal (substitute stronger language) and should only be done when the person having the child is ready and willing

it's not just nine months. and that pain isn't temporary. When your body changes that much you can;t ever get is just like it was before. Close, but not perfect. Your stomach will never quite be the same, or your back. And let's not forget that postpartum depression exists. Having a child isn't just carrying it for nine months- its paying hospital bills, feeding, providing shelter, caring for, and loving a small, utterly helpless human being. Its a big deal, and your life never goes back to the way it was before.
For some people, that could mean the end of their lives, their careers, their friendships, their habits. Having a child is a big-frickin-deal (substitute stronger language) and should only be done when the person having the child is ready and willing

and c'mon, lets be real. if people really cared about children as much as they claim when abortion is mentioned, they'd put a lot more money into schools, and the foster care system. But they don't because usually, they couldn't care less about the child after they're born.