I've been here a while and honestly? I agree with a lot of the points made.
When a bunch of people started going off on certain users who typed like this "u r cool and i 2 hop we tolk" or something, people made it a big deal for no reason?? I don't love that way of typing but y'all were like "we're on a writing website please know how to do basic english." especially when not everyone has that luxury.
And newbies are going to be bad at what they do and some people are aggressive about their criticism especially for someone who wouldn't know how to take it. And whne you @ a certain user in a public thread, more people are gonna gang up and it's overwhelming for them too. Older users are gonna trust other users they've known for a while more than they will newbies which is okay. It makes sense but sometimes it feels like we just turn a blind eye when a fellow "OG" does something wrong. I realize I'm part of the problem but I want to change.
I forgot where I was going again, sorry
(I know I'm not really contributing anything to this discussion, but I understand both sides and I'm willing to hear them both out as long as we are all civil and mature about it. I know that in some instances that I personally fuelled this "Toxicity" without really thinking about what I was doing or how it affected other people. I took a break from this site a while back and came back recently, so you could say that I'm not really up to speed with everything that's going on. However, I genuinely think that this conversation is something that can impact the Notebook.Ai community for the greater good if done correctly.)
it was a rudeness chat. for people to take their problems to a single place instead of letting them build up or ruin other chats. if you had a bone to pick with someone, that was the place to do it
yeah, we've grown a lot. which is also why utilizing the chat is the mature and responsible thing to do
yeah, i guess your right on that part, but even then, i feel like if you had a problem with someone that you should have taken it to pms instead of letting everyone know that you had a problem with that one person, cause then it would escalate and you'd have everyone going for that person
i guess it might just be my unpopular opinion, but i feel it better to settle things like the mature adults that we are in private
see, a couple of users on this site have tried that. and unfortunately, most of the time it hasn't ended well. where a couple have just ignored the healthy criticism, others have come back with violent threats. as in, the verbal abuse you seem to be pinning on 'ogs'. in public, however, those same people who responded with threats in private know better than to air those true colors. still, often a problem is presented in these people playing the victim card, claiming to be 'attacked', when looking back at the source shows that its nothing more than advice or criticism on the original problem.
while yes, some of these original members you're referring to have been incredibly immature in the past, the problem was a two way street, more often than not. theres page upon page of proof of that. as well as proof of growth on our end, though the new users haven't had the time to grow
So here's my questions to everyone who agreed: If it's been a serious problem for a while now, why did none of you say something about it until now? Why did you choose to hop aboard a bandwagon instead of acting on your own earlier? Why did none of you personally message any members of the group in question? Why didn't you say anything to anyone in a simple, private, one-on-one discussion, where you could appeal to the individuals instead of dragging in the entire site? How come you aren't willing to realize that by perpetuating silence and inaction, you also fueled the fires of this so-called "toxicity"?
actually, i think there was a thread about this a while ago but no one really did anything to address the problems. some of the people being picked on were just kids when they joined- still are. they were scared and some of us didn't find out about the things happening until we saw it for ourselves or they told us because they were genuinely scared.
dude, even im scared to say things sometimes because it's not just us that isn't listening, it's you guys as well. i hate confrontation with a passion because sometimes i dont know how to word things correctly and one off-hand comment that i make and everyone is getting rilled up.
but red, i dont think you were a part of this- i think you were gone because of some things happening in your family
but i do remember the one group chat i was in with ya'll and you guys would constantly talk about others, i never participated. i was in a bad mental state back then and i knew it wouldn't have done good to call you guys out because most of the time i cant hold my ground. of course, i've grown a lot since then too and i refuse to stay quiet about this now.
gonna just chime in on that first bit about new users being kids
you know most of us on this site are kids and teens right
In response to Red-
For my experience, I've only witnessed toxicity a handful of times. And I said my peace right then and there, the majority of the time. Other times it sorted itself out and I never intervened. And still other times, it hung in the air and I didn't really know what to say. I'm not dragging anyone here. Everyone I've talked to I've made my peace with. I don't believe the site or the people are toxic, I don't think that at all. But we all have our bad days and we've all said thing I hope we regret.
I'm not really on a "side", either. I really do understand why the "OGs" have been so hesitant with newcomers. I understand why newcomers find the OGs cold and unwelcoming.
I also acknowledge that I have been
perpetuating silence and inaction, (and) also fueled the fires of this so-called "toxicity"
We all have, I think.
I also understand when you say you feel targeted and frustrated. This thread is taking an ironic twist on itself.
There isn't a right side and a wrong side. We're all in a hazy grey area, we're all a little wrong and we're all a little right. The reason I chose to participate in this thread was because I have a hope. My hope is that everyone can acknowledge that we all suck. I hope we can all humble ourselves a little and acknowledge each other's feelings. We're not gunna get along all the time. We all have something different to offer. My participation in this thread isn't a passive agressive nod to certain occasions or people, it's a nod to the fact that we're all just people. I hope what everyone takes away from this thread is that we can all be more forgiving and tolerant and understanding of each other. All of us.
Anyway, that's my response to you, Red, and the explanation as to why I'm here. I love you all, I really do <3
(And yes, more Community bits. Because you know what? We're a community dangit)
I'm going to throw my own little bit in here. I've been here for a good while, and I've seen friendgroups rise to the top, and then get toppled by another. And toxicity is also a problem. I've seen new users try to get a foothold, and try to be different, but someone snaps and they fall back too scared to do anything. And other new users, (not mentioning names) are welcome with open arms, just because they fit the standard that's been made known. Listen, I don't care what you think of me. It's not going to hurt my feelings. You'll never see me in real life. Therefore, why do I need to be hurt? I'm gonna be completely honest. I really don't fit in anywhere. Like there's no friendgroup that I specifically belong to. That's okay. I try to be courteous to everyone. Like the saying goes, "treat everyone how you would like to be treated."
That's what I'm trying to do. Granted I'm not perfect, and I screw up, but that's to be human. It's just a part of life.
it was a rudeness chat. for people to take their problems to a single place instead of letting them build up or ruin other chats. if you had a bone to pick with someone, that was the place to do it
yeah, we've grown a lot. which is also why utilizing the chat is the mature and responsible thing to do
yeah, i guess your right on that part, but even then, i feel like if you had a problem with someone that you should have taken it to pms instead of letting everyone know that you had a problem with that one person, cause then it would escalate and you'd have everyone going for that person
i guess it might just be my unpopular opinion, but i feel it better to settle things like the mature adults that we are in privatesee, a couple of users on this site have tried that. and unfortunately, most of the time it hasn't ended well. where a couple have just ignored the healthy criticism, others have come back with violent threats. as in, the verbal abuse you seem to be pinning on 'ogs'. in public, however, those same people who responded with threats in private know better than to air those true colors. still, often a problem is presented in these people playing the victim card, claiming to be 'attacked', when looking back at the source shows that its nothing more than advice or criticism on the original problem.
while yes, some of these original members you're referring to have been incredibly immature in the past, the problem was a two way street, more often than not. theres page upon page of proof of that. as well as proof of growth on our end, though the new users haven't had the time to grow
im not exactly pinning anything on anyone, it could be the ogs (even though in my opinion you guys were great, some, not so much), or new users, this goes for everyone, new or not. but yes, it was an og that said some of the verbal abuse because i saw it.
but even though some of the things said were criticism, it would always escalate, that being the og that said something or the new user. and most of the time it was because the things being said couldn't be ignored. if they didn't have a valid point and just used explicit language, then i dont see why you guys would even try to reason with someone like that.
but no, yeah, i completely agree with that. some people are two-faced and will act innocent one moment, then when everyone turns their back, they become a completely different person, so i get you on that.
thought right now, i feel like all of that has died down a lttle? and i think it has to do with more than half the users being absent. we have a lot of personalities that clash, but i think we can make this work.
and uh yeah i know that most of us are teenagers, but the people being targetted at the time were kids. anyways, i feel like it hasn't been that bad this year??? maybe?? because like i said, most of us have left and no one is really that active anymore
So here's my questions to everyone who agreed: If it's been a serious problem for a while now, why did none of you say something about it until now? Why did you choose to hop aboard a bandwagon instead of acting on your own earlier? Why did none of you personally message any members of the group in question? Why didn't you say anything to anyone in a simple, private, one-on-one discussion, where you could appeal to the individuals instead of dragging in the entire site? How come you aren't willing to realize that by perpetuating silence and inaction, you also fueled the fires of this so-called "toxicity"?
actually, i think there was a thread about this a while ago but no one really did anything to address the problems. some of the people being picked on were just kids when they joined- still are. they were scared and some of us didn't find out about the things happening until we saw it for ourselves or they told us because they were genuinely scared.
dude, even im scared to say things sometimes because it's not just us that isn't listening, it's you guys as well. i hate confrontation with a passion because sometimes i dont know how to word things correctly and one off-hand comment that i make and everyone is getting rilled up.
but red, i dont think you were a part of this- i think you were gone because of some things happening in your family
but i do remember the one group chat i was in with ya'll and you guys would constantly talk about others, i never participated. i was in a bad mental state back then and i knew it wouldn't have done good to call you guys out because most of the time i cant hold my ground. of course, i've grown a lot since then too and i refuse to stay quiet about this now.
I don't remember anything like that during the time I was here. There were some chunks of time I wasn't online, so I guess I missed that thread during one of those. It's unfortunate that that occurred.
And yeah, that's fair, but sometimes confrontation is necessary, even with the risk of accidentally making it worse, at least you could say you tried. That should at least count for something. At least, that's what I believe. Speaking of, if you ever have a problem with me, Atlas, please don't hesitate to tell me. I've been trying to hold myself accountable for all the rage and lashing out I did in the past, so having someone to help call me on my own bullshit is not only helpful, but refreshing.
Even if I was or wasn't part of the original debacle, I still feel the need to interject. Like you, they're my friends. They helped me through that tough family shit I was dealing with. They didn't poke fun at me for crying or being weak, instead they comforted me, understood what I was going through was horrible (and was, in turn, making me horrible), and stuck with me despite that.
I remember that chat too, it's been a long time since then. I know I've changed since then, I know everyone has. I know I said some terrible shit, and I know it was because I refused to deal with my emotions in a healthy way, instead letting it fester into rage and hatred at the world and lashing out at anyone that made themselves a viable target. But that doesn't excuse what I did, that just explains why.
I truly am sorry.
hey there, I'm fifteen years old and definitely still a kid. and as a kid I'm saying that recieving that criticism and advice, those pointers, this early is exactly what helps you become a better person as you get older, whether in hobbies or life
and i think imma go now, im tired of writing out these long ass paragraphs lmao, imma take a break and go watch the karate kid or something cause dang, this discussion had drained me dude
if they didn't have a valid point and just used explicit language, then i dont see why you guys would even try to reason with someone like that.
Someone threatened to come to our homes and kill us, told some of us he wished our houses got bombed in WW2, as well as other things so uh yeah, people are going to be upset about that
I just wanna say that the whole "OG's don't welcome new ppl" thing is absolute bullshit. I've only been active on GC for maybe 7 months, and they've never snapped at me. Then again, I'm not an asshole, so shrug
I'm confused. You're upset that some people make friends easily?
No, it's just that there are users out there who want so desperately to be in a specific friend group, who never are able to "find a place" if you so will. That's not the problem. The problem is that some people don't feel like they are good enough to even be considered "in the group" if you so will. I'm not mad, some of my best friends came from here. It's just that tension has been brewing for a long time, and it's finally coming out. I'm just trying to see everything from different points of view, besides my own.
if they didn't have a valid point and just used explicit language, then i dont see why you guys would even try to reason with someone like that.
Someone threatened to come to our homes and kill us, told some of us he wished our houses got bombed in WW2, as well as other things so uh yeah, people are going to be upset about that
nonono im not talking about that, im sure you guys would snap at them because that's fucking terrible. im talking about the few users that just logged in, said some bad shit, then deleted their account. they clearly were just messing around and if they actually meant any of that, and acted upon it, they're getting arrested for even coming close to your house
though, im pretty sure that's the reason we got a report button?
but man, im just getting confused at this point cause there's a lot that went down for the last two years and not all of it can be addressed
though, i think what i was gettin at was the one user?? idk what their name was but it had something to do with a fork?? then gasper? idk man, too many to name and idk if im even getting the names right
One last response before I have to go. @Owen, I would've quoted your speech but what I have to say is kinda too short to warrant that action. Anyways. You're right, and I agree with you, but that doesn't make this any less upsetting. I'll let your words ruminate in my mind while I'm offline, and hopefully, I'll have a better response when I return. Thank you for understanding, and I apologize.
also, right quick before i leave
red, you're fine
i do remember you being angry all the time and i can see why. you were going through some rough shit, i even talked about it with you at one point because it was getting worse (the stuff about your mother, and im really sorry that happened). but yeah, hey dude, it's alrighty, im also sorry if i ever did anything to make you upset or feel bad- it was never my intention. i still consider you a good friend, even though i dont know if it's mutual. the important thing now is that it's all in the past and we should just strive to start anew.
and circe, yeah, also gotta agree with that, some people like you take it well because you want to improve yourself, but other people…wellll…they're still not ready for that because they're too childish to accept any criticism
I just want to say that (as far as I know), none of us had ever tried to force a user to delete their account
Yes, things get heated sometimes when people don't handle critique well and then everyone gets snippy, but I don't think we've ever told anyone to delete their account over something
I could be wrong, but I really don't think I am
@Owen i love the community bits :')
personally, i've only been active here for a couple months and i've never been spoken down to or dismissed. that said, i mostly stick to the characters forum, but i really enjoy the characters forum and have never run into anyone there, new or old, who's acted inappropriately. i don't know any of you very well, but i respect a lot of you. i'm still a little confused, i guess, since i haven't seen any of this happen firsthand, but what are some specific, recent instances of toxicity? and (i'm asking the people who feel from firsthand experience that there's an issue) what can we do as individuals to foster a kind and welcoming culture?
Hi, I'm a new(er) user here but if I could make some points? This seems creepily similar to shit I see in fandom communities and I can gladly stay on the sidelines, but I feel like I could contribute some talking point if you guys are open to it. I don't want to cross any boundaries, obviously.
This currently is a place to learn from. Go right ahead hun. I would like to see this from your point of view.
@Owen i love the community bits :')
personally, i've only been active here for a couple months and i've never been spoken down to or dismissed. that said, i mostly stick to the characters forum, but i really enjoy the characters forum and have never run into anyone there, new or old, who's acted inappropriately. i don't know any of you very well, but i respect a lot of you. i'm still a little confused, i guess, since i haven't seen any of this happen firsthand, but what are some specific, recent instances of toxicity? and (i'm asking the people who feel from firsthand experience that there's an issue) what can we do as individuals to foster a kind and welcoming culture?
I can't remember who was involved or the subject of the matter since this happened awhile ago, but there was a major argument and most users (including me) took a side without actually knowing what happened in the first place. I'm sure more things have happened, but since it was a while back, my memory is a little fuzzy. I also think that some users just need to be open-minded, for example, there was this time I expressed that I didn't like something and then I was automatically pushed out as a friend. I mean it didn't hurt me personally, but people need to be open to new things and hearing people out. This isn't aimed towards anyone of course, but I think that this could be one of the steps we need to take in order to become a better community.
also, right quick before i leave
red, you're fine
i do remember you being angry all the time and i can see why. you were going through some rough shit, i even talked about it with you at one point because it was getting worse (the stuff about your mother, and im really sorry that happened). but yeah, hey dude, it's alrighty, im also sorry if i ever did anything to make you upset or feel bad- it was never my intention. i still consider you a good friend, even though i dont know if it's mutual. the important thing now is that it's all in the past and we should just strive to start anew.
Yeah, thank you. I'm trying to be good, for her sake at least. You haven't done anything I can remember that hurt me, otherwise, I'd probably still be holding that grudge lmao
I think of you as a good friend too, though it seems we've both changed a lot as individuals. I'd like to talk with you again, if that's alright
i guess, since i haven't seen any of this happen firsthand, but what are some specific, recent instances of toxicity? and (i'm asking the people who feel from firsthand experience that there's an issue) what can we do as individuals to foster a kind and welcoming culture?
Before I go into this, I just want to be clear that I'm not pointing fingers or aiming this at anyone specific.
One thing that I've personally noticed is that this site, to me, feels really cliquey at times. Obviously, yeah you're allowed to have friends but I feel like it kind of ties in with what Reblod mentioned in their original post regarding elitism:
Continuing, people only seem to care about a conversation if it’s with a well-known or admired individual. A lot of the time, users are outright ignored. Even if you try to join their conversation and especially if you try to start a new one. Either people are so absorbed in what they’re doing or they simply don’t care about other people who are trying to reach out.
The thing is, I'm not 100% certain that people realize that they're contributing to this. People have their groups of friends on this site (which is fine), and people are going to want to talk to their friends (again, nothing wrong with this). But as a result, posts by users from outside of that group get kind of lost in the shuffle and end up getting overlooked or ignored. It's not something that's being done out of any sort of malice, but I think some people just need to be aware that there's people who exist outside of their group of friends who want to and deserve to be heard.
Edit: I can't believe I made a post about ignoring people's posts only to have it ignored. That's not a good look.
This currently is a place to learn from. Go right ahead hun. I would like to see this from your point of view.
Hello! And thanks! As it turns out humans need food to survive and so I had to leave but hey! Anyways. Uh. Brain empty give me a minute to type out my thoughts on the subject.
(uh, maybe don’t spell it that way…)
(Spell what what way?)
(Oh God autocorrect I am so sorry. Blame me and my friends lol)